aryan826: fantastic, soo uhh have we jsut decided original characters are allowed then? i hope so.
P.S i hope covid mutates and gets rid of all you whiny assholes <3
sokumotanaka: ^^^
You fools are gay either way, you don't like a guy in animation. Fair but don't pretend like the close up on the dick and balls isn't gay cause it's attached to a girl. It's still a close up on a dick and balls you idiots.
This is why I prefer strap-ons
mal_man: "zyx012: Being against futa is not homophobic lmao. But also saying in the comments "Meh because futa" is pretty fucking gay"
"It's a dick penetrating a pussy, nothing gay about that you fucking idiot"
I'm pretty sure in the first instance you're using the word gay to mean... something other than gay. Like stupid or something else. Similar to saying something like, "Hey, you trashed my house last night. That's fucking gay." Except in that case, it's patently obvious that trashing a house has nothing to do with sexual orientation. At least in the second instance it makes sense and isn't disingenuous. Just a downfall of a text only medium I guess.
Show me where anyone said that being against futa is homophobic. What's actually homophobic is when someone compares futa vs hetero sex and claims that one is superior because one is 'less gay', which for one, begs the question of what basis they are judging it to begin with. Is it from a voyeur's standpoint, that the individual 'feels' less gay watching women with dicks than hetero sex? Or is it from the evolutionary viewpoint that heterosexual sex is the very antithesis of gay? All throughout is the tacit implication that being gay is just a horrible, horrible thing. Queue the tiny violin playing. Who gives a shit? If you prefer futa over hetero, that's fine. To each their own. But if you frame your preference around a negation, i.e. whether one is 'less gay', you're just waving the homophobia flag wildly.
Leety99: @mal_man hey ill bite. just got my nut off and thought to check here again. I appreciate your seemingly logical flow in your bottom paragraph, and this discussion in general a bit. I find a flaw in your argument that A inherently means B in ALL cases. when I initially typed 'less gay', to me this is an assumption based on the already -existing- comment bringing up futa at all. Personally, I dont find the male face and body attractive at all, rather the opposite. But this is still undermined immediately by paying explicit attention to the male at all, in a hetero viewer. It should be nearly inconsequential to us. I still struggle with skin color even, trying to note what the hell the difference is btwn these double-posts here (only to find upon closer inspection, its skin tone of male lol). But yeah, IMO theres a natural aversion to futa because futa = trans = homo. But as one becomes more porn addicted and it normalized, alongside the perfection of animated models proportions, the logic refines into 'if Im straight, why should i expect or desire a male body or face within this stuff at all?' Because the first poster complained, I feel its natural to assume to this point, having experienced it myself. In short, user 'slappy1' is likely a youngun', who has yet go undergo this inevitable process w fantasy porn or closeted if older. Flags of homophobia are both distinct yet blurry on simple internet comments. But, in short, from a logical standpoint first experience is needed by the use (age), past that, it makes perfect sense for a hetero to -prefer- futa here, and raises the concern that one who still does not, may actually be closeted homo rather than homophobic. Thats about as much ill type with cum on my hands.
mal_man: "I find a flaw in your argument that A inherently means B in ALL cases"
Could you be more specific? I tend to avoid speaking in absolutes. Gross generalizations are likely fallacies, but I don't see where I made one.
The reason why I mentioned the downfall of a text only medium is that context is everything. Here there is a persistent negative connotation with the word gay, and the implication is typically that being gay is just awful. The salient point in most peoples' arguments about 'futa vs hetero' is that one is less gay than the other. That's it. That's the extent of their genius reasoning. On the other hand, if everyone just said, as you did, that you prefer to see the female form, then it would be clear that it's not necessarily homophobic, and that the argument is framed around a voyeur's perspective. An extrinsic view, where you're the outsider looking in. However, I enjoy taking the opposite approach, where I am the heterosexual man in the scene. I'm on the inside looking out. The scene doesn't necessarily need to be first person for me to do this. Empathizing, imagining, suspending disbelief. I find futa scenes much harder to do this, which is why I prefer watching hetero sex. I'd rather see the guy, because that guy in the scene.. that guy is me. I'm no 'youngun' either. I don't think preferring futa over hetero sex is in any way a function of age. It comes down to whether you are able to and prefer to 'self-insert', imagining yourself as one of the characters in a scene. I think some people don't like to, or are simply not capable of suspending disbelief enough to do this. Perhaps this is partly because all the blood is flowing away from their brains and into their dicks. Maybe it's because they are further down on the continuum of empathetic intelligence, and further up on the autistic or psychopathic continuum. Who knows?
Leety99: its really tough to expound on such subjective matters like this. Whether or not you are imagining yourself in a scene I also deem inconsequential because of this. After eliminating as much subjectivity as possible, what Im left with is only logical assumption. One has to assume based on the most likely, most common. Lots of questions left, to be sure.
"What's actually homophobic is when someone compares futa vs hetero sex and claims that one is superior because one is 'less gay'" this is what I deem fallacious as it jumps immediately to homophobia (a strict definition) without equally strict criterion. You did go on to speculate based on the actual definition of 'less gay', which I think is smart but avoids the big picture. Im rather sure the reasoning behind gay = bad is very rarely homophobia, but, we are jerking off. Another man/cock that is not yours is an innate red flag to the brain- a threat. This rounds back to the self-insert speculation. Anyway, this is my assumed most logical path here. Properly understanding and accepting that seeing another mans FACE and FORM while you are a hetero trying to cum is a turn-off is quite plain to me. That is indefensibly gay, and the act of a person complaining with the intent of seeking normality in WANTING to see a male in a scene rather than a female is already under the assumption that gay = bad (implicitly hetero), with the glaring confliction that I initially pointed out. In this sense, assuming you are a hetero you should PREFER futa because of this. Almost like conventional physics into quantum physics, rules change here with quality animated porn. But thats a subject for another day. What a strange place to have a small interesting discussion. Respect to you.
But most importantly, respect for the uploader and animator Nyl for posting this quality animation ^^
Leety99: eh to be really direct- futa shouldnt interfere with self-insert fantasy btw. Its pretty damn unlikely we look anything like the male regardless of which model is used. The cock however, is all that is needed I say. So it's a happy middle ground in porn for all but the actual gays. Who are wanting specifically to see male body, face, beard etc. @mal_man:
mal_man: You deem the self-insert view as inconsequential because it's subjective? If that's true, then surely all arguments here cease to hold any value whatsoever, because they are all also subjective. This is a matter of preference, is it not? Hence the subjectivity.
You interpreted the above quotation from me without all the relevant context. It is framed around a negation of homosexuality, rather than an affirmation of preference. It's a subtle, though important distinction. When someone's argument is wholly concerned with the avoidance of homosexuality, it DOES jump immediately to homophobia. Though of course I would never categorically claim someone is homophobic just because what they communicated was different than intended, just as I wouldn't say in every inductive case that "if x then y", because we can all find the one exception where x actually equals z. That doesn't weaken my argument, it's simply a limitation with all inductive reasoning and should go without saying. For the sake of brevity and the avoidance of pedantry, I hope we can both agree on that.
Also, homophobia isn't a necessarily strict definition, as I'm sure you can recognize that there is a relative scale to it. It's not a binary disposition, just like, for example, overt versus latent racism or sexism isn't either.
"Another man/cock that is not yours is an innate red flag to the brain- a threat."
That is exactly what I was talking about. It's an empathy thing. Where you might see something and see it as 'other' or 'foreign' and think 'that is not me', I do the opposite. That IS subjective, and as I said in my earlier post, to each their own. According to your argument, that should make me indefensibly gay. However, that's not the case.
I prefer hetero to futa, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate futa from a voyeur's standpoint. However, Futa DOES interfere with my self-insert fantasy, because footlong dicks on women make alarm bells go off in my mammalian brain which tell me those don't go together, evolutionarily speaking. I can use my imagination in self-insert fantasies, but my imagination does have limits. Those limits seem to be scenes where women have dicks and balls.
"Its pretty damn unlikely we look anything like the male regardless of which model is used." Uh, I look a lot more like the male models on here than the female ones, lol.
You know, the real irony here is that you (forgive me if I'm wrong) can't imagine the idea that anyone could prefer a self-insert hetero fantasy over futa, when the self-insert fantasy requires imagination to begin with.
Leety99: hm this type of in depth discussion really doesnt work out well in this format. We are not fully addressing each other, or droning on over a misconception. My commentary was explicitly explaining my train of thought of my initial, first post here. You went on as if were an all encompassing factoid. I understand this is just a porn comment section, but for someone so able, you seem to fall short on such a basic level... For anything self-insert, hate to state the obvious but... POV exists. Imagining yourself watching yourself certainly seems equally or even lesser imaginative than simply imagining yourself as the futa lol.
Down to brass tacks- I am able to do all of the above. I indeed can self insert, I also enjoy a wide sharpie up my ass. So a scene of futa like above, I can both get into either person. I never actually consider im watching anyone, hate the idea in fact. But yeah, I like tits, girls feet, pussy, ass, shape, hair. Everything about a woman. What I described as 'quantum' here, unlike even the most hormoned-up and operated-on tranny can ditch male hips, feet, jaw nose all that. So at the end of the day, I want to see women, and not men. Cocks I can relate to obviously. But another male, no. Cant do much explaining here obviously. Feelsgoodman.png will suffice. I will say that I prefer light skin tone, similar to my own. Which, its the dick color. Black = novel/threat there. shrug. This is too messy to retain interest in convo. Still I always appreciate convo with someone able to express their thoughts beyond a grade school level.
mal_man: Yes, I realize POV exists. However, a lack of POV is not a problem for me either. It doesn't stop me from being able to imagine myself as a character. Like I said, I know my own limitations. I have a hard time imagining myself as a character where that character has an hourglass figure, a set of tits, and a huge cock and balls. It IS less imaginative, you're right. And I said so myself in my previous post, i.e. my imagination has limits. Just like how I can't just imagine, with the same visual and auditory fidelity, any porn scene entirely from scratch. If any of us could do that, what need would we have of porn?
So, lemme get this straight. You have no problem self-inserting as a woman with a dick because you have an incredible imagination. However, if that dick happens to be black, then no dice? Forgive my astonishment. I'm not judging you, just your line of reasoning. Because that actually does seem gay to me (which of course there's nothing wrong with that). But you've made the claim that if you're hetero, you should prefer futa. However, I figured the only way that could be true was if you were NOT self-inserting, because if you were a man that imagined himself as a woman, well, that is, strictly speaking, gay. You would have envisioned yourself as a woman in scene with another woman.
"past that, it makes perfect sense for a hetero to -prefer- futa here, and raises the concern that one who still does not, may actually be closeted homo rather than homophobic."
You've taken your own preferences and assumed that everyone shares them. My entire point here has been to show that with futa vs hetero, one isn't necessarily less gay than the other. And this is true depending on the lens through which you view porn, i.e. voyeur vs self-insert, or even switching dynamically between them.
The quantum vs conventional physics analogy doesn't make a lot of sense either. I'm fully aware of the difference in technology between animated and live-action porn, and how that allows us to represent characters having sex. But the rules they operate under when it comes to real-life people watching, aren't really much different. WE as viewers, are still the same humans we were when all we had to watch was live-action stuff. We're still the same smart apes. Why should the porn medium have any bearing on how our brain interprets sex? It doesn't absolve an act from being gay or straight. Maybe what it really does is illustrate that we're, at the very least, all a little gay. Sexual orientation, after all, exists along a continuum, too. I'm always surprised to realize that so many prude cultures (the largest demographics in them) haven't realized this yet. The Greeks figured that shit out over 2000 years ago.
Leety99: lol you have a tendency of over-complicating perhaps. the quantum analogy I explained well I felt. You take a female model (the proportions are of real life dimensions) and add a dick. You cant do that in real life. Explained that too.
for self-insert, well, I dunno how you do it my friend. For me, the dick becomes my dick. I can almost feel what it looks it should be feeling. Simple as that... no I dont need to imagine myself with tits and long hair lol. I dont obsess too much over whats gay and what isnt, but it's fun to get a shot in at someone I know who does is all.
Leety99: I will say that you are right on this point, probably:
"You've taken your own preferences and assumed that everyone shares them."
That is... ya know I did my best I could say. I sure never had a conversation about this stuff, any of it. With anyone, ever before. Assumptions work fine but the More You Know, right? I do find it a bit interesting you make this claim, further that you fully well, self-insert with the term 'self-insert'... I guess that makes more sense to me why a person would want to see a male? I dunno, I cant do that. There's an example, eh VLVTs bring your daughter to work day animation with sarah cowgirl on the chair. The male there is really average while realistic. Kinda close to what I look like, it doesnt help my at all. I still barely notice the guy at all (yes, still, id rather it be just another chick to look at lol)
mal_man: Yeah, I didn't coin the term 'self-insert'. I heard it on this site, actually, though I suspect it's been around for a while. I guess it's just a more convenient short hand that I thought everyone was familiar with. I guess not? When used alone outside of any context the term definitely sounds a little queer- well, for a guy anyway, lol. The innuendo isn't lost on me.
Anyway, if this is true: "For me, the dick becomes my dick. I can almost feel what it looks it should be feeling. Simple as that... no I dont need to imagine myself with tits and long hair lol."
If you aren't self-inserting as the woman, then why does it matter what model that dick belongs to? And then you later say: "I guess that makes more sense to me why a person would want to see a male? I dunno, I cant do that." To me, this says that you don't actually self-insert. Or maybe you only do it intermittently, and when you aren't actively imagining yourself in place of a character, you become the voyeur again. And when this happens, you don't want to see some dude. You'd rather see the female form. I guess I can understand that. But it still seems a little arbitrary to have an issue with every part of the male physique except the dick. Do these enormous dicks in all these futa videos resemble yours? I mean, if the whole issue is that you can't suspend disbelief when it comes to self-inserting with the male body, how can you do it with these foot long monsters the diameter of Pepsi can?
"the quantum analogy I explained well I felt. You take a female model (the proportions are of real life dimensions) and add a dick. You cant do that in real life. Explained that too."
Well, the actual mechanics of a woman with a dick isn't really the issue, is it? You said that the rules changed:
"In this sense, assuming you are a hetero you should PREFER futa because of this. Almost like conventional physics into quantum physics, rules change here with quality animated porn"
But the rules you're talking about are related to sexual orientation. And I tried to explain my position about why that doesn't make sense.
Well, I haven't had this in-depth of a discussion about this stuff either, but I appreciate the candid dialogue. Thanks for being a good sport about the whole thing. Cheers!
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P.S i hope covid mutates and gets rid of all you whiny assholes <3
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You fools are gay either way, you don't like a guy in animation. Fair but don't pretend like the close up on the dick and balls isn't gay cause it's attached to a girl. It's still a close up on a dick and balls you idiots.
This is why I prefer strap-ons
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"It's a dick penetrating a pussy, nothing gay about that you fucking idiot"
I'm pretty sure in the first instance you're using the word gay to mean... something other than gay. Like stupid or something else. Similar to saying something like, "Hey, you trashed my house last night. That's fucking gay." Except in that case, it's patently obvious that trashing a house has nothing to do with sexual orientation. At least in the second instance it makes sense and isn't disingenuous. Just a downfall of a text only medium I guess.
Show me where anyone said that being against futa is homophobic. What's actually homophobic is when someone compares futa vs hetero sex and claims that one is superior because one is 'less gay', which for one, begs the question of what basis they are judging it to begin with. Is it from a voyeur's standpoint, that the individual 'feels' less gay watching women with dicks than hetero sex? Or is it from the evolutionary viewpoint that heterosexual sex is the very antithesis of gay? All throughout is the tacit implication that being gay is just a horrible, horrible thing. Queue the tiny violin playing. Who gives a shit? If you prefer futa over hetero, that's fine. To each their own. But if you frame your preference around a negation, i.e. whether one is 'less gay', you're just waving the homophobia flag wildly.
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Could you be more specific? I tend to avoid speaking in absolutes. Gross generalizations are likely fallacies, but I don't see where I made one.
The reason why I mentioned the downfall of a text only medium is that context is everything. Here there is a persistent negative connotation with the word gay, and the implication is typically that being gay is just awful. The salient point in most peoples' arguments about 'futa vs hetero' is that one is less gay than the other. That's it. That's the extent of their genius reasoning. On the other hand, if everyone just said, as you did, that you prefer to see the female form, then it would be clear that it's not necessarily homophobic, and that the argument is framed around a voyeur's perspective. An extrinsic view, where you're the outsider looking in. However, I enjoy taking the opposite approach, where I am the heterosexual man in the scene. I'm on the inside looking out. The scene doesn't necessarily need to be first person for me to do this. Empathizing, imagining, suspending disbelief. I find futa scenes much harder to do this, which is why I prefer watching hetero sex. I'd rather see the guy, because that guy in the scene.. that guy is me. I'm no 'youngun' either. I don't think preferring futa over hetero sex is in any way a function of age. It comes down to whether you are able to and prefer to 'self-insert', imagining yourself as one of the characters in a scene. I think some people don't like to, or are simply not capable of suspending disbelief enough to do this. Perhaps this is partly because all the blood is flowing away from their brains and into their dicks. Maybe it's because they are further down on the continuum of empathetic intelligence, and further up on the autistic or psychopathic continuum. Who knows?
"What's actually homophobic is when someone compares futa vs hetero sex and claims that one is superior because one is 'less gay'" this is what I deem fallacious as it jumps immediately to homophobia (a strict definition) without equally strict criterion. You did go on to speculate based on the actual definition of 'less gay', which I think is smart but avoids the big picture. Im rather sure the reasoning behind gay = bad is very rarely homophobia, but, we are jerking off. Another man/cock that is not yours is an innate red flag to the brain- a threat. This rounds back to the self-insert speculation. Anyway, this is my assumed most logical path here. Properly understanding and accepting that seeing another mans FACE and FORM while you are a hetero trying to cum is a turn-off is quite plain to me. That is indefensibly gay, and the act of a person complaining with the intent of seeking normality in WANTING to see a male in a scene rather than a female is already under the assumption that gay = bad (implicitly hetero), with the glaring confliction that I initially pointed out. In this sense, assuming you are a hetero you should PREFER futa because of this. Almost like conventional physics into quantum physics, rules change here with quality animated porn. But thats a subject for another day. What a strange place to have a small interesting discussion. Respect to you.
But most importantly, respect for the uploader and animator Nyl for posting this quality animation ^^
You interpreted the above quotation from me without all the relevant context. It is framed around a negation of homosexuality, rather than an affirmation of preference. It's a subtle, though important distinction. When someone's argument is wholly concerned with the avoidance of homosexuality, it DOES jump immediately to homophobia. Though of course I would never categorically claim someone is homophobic just because what they communicated was different than intended, just as I wouldn't say in every inductive case that "if x then y", because we can all find the one exception where x actually equals z. That doesn't weaken my argument, it's simply a limitation with all inductive reasoning and should go without saying. For the sake of brevity and the avoidance of pedantry, I hope we can both agree on that.
Also, homophobia isn't a necessarily strict definition, as I'm sure you can recognize that there is a relative scale to it. It's not a binary disposition, just like, for example, overt versus latent racism or sexism isn't either.
"Another man/cock that is not yours is an innate red flag to the brain- a threat."
That is exactly what I was talking about. It's an empathy thing. Where you might see something and see it as 'other' or 'foreign' and think 'that is not me', I do the opposite. That IS subjective, and as I said in my earlier post, to each their own. According to your argument, that should make me indefensibly gay. However, that's not the case.
I prefer hetero to futa, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate futa from a voyeur's standpoint. However, Futa DOES interfere with my self-insert fantasy, because footlong dicks on women make alarm bells go off in my mammalian brain which tell me those don't go together, evolutionarily speaking. I can use my imagination in self-insert fantasies, but my imagination does have limits. Those limits seem to be scenes where women have dicks and balls.
"Its pretty damn unlikely we look anything like the male regardless of which model is used." Uh, I look a lot more like the male models on here than the female ones, lol.
You know, the real irony here is that you (forgive me if I'm wrong) can't imagine the idea that anyone could prefer a self-insert hetero fantasy over futa, when the self-insert fantasy requires imagination to begin with.
Down to brass tacks- I am able to do all of the above. I indeed can self insert, I also enjoy a wide sharpie up my ass. So a scene of futa like above, I can both get into either person. I never actually consider im watching anyone, hate the idea in fact. But yeah, I like tits, girls feet, pussy, ass, shape, hair. Everything about a woman. What I described as 'quantum' here, unlike even the most hormoned-up and operated-on tranny can ditch male hips, feet, jaw nose all that. So at the end of the day, I want to see women, and not men. Cocks I can relate to obviously. But another male, no. Cant do much explaining here obviously. Feelsgoodman.png will suffice. I will say that I prefer light skin tone, similar to my own. Which, its the dick color. Black = novel/threat there. shrug. This is too messy to retain interest in convo. Still I always appreciate convo with someone able to express their thoughts beyond a grade school level.
So, lemme get this straight. You have no problem self-inserting as a woman with a dick because you have an incredible imagination. However, if that dick happens to be black, then no dice? Forgive my astonishment. I'm not judging you, just your line of reasoning. Because that actually does seem gay to me (which of course there's nothing wrong with that). But you've made the claim that if you're hetero, you should prefer futa. However, I figured the only way that could be true was if you were NOT self-inserting, because if you were a man that imagined himself as a woman, well, that is, strictly speaking, gay. You would have envisioned yourself as a woman in scene with another woman.
"past that, it makes perfect sense for a hetero to -prefer- futa here, and raises the concern that one who still does not, may actually be closeted homo rather than homophobic."
You've taken your own preferences and assumed that everyone shares them. My entire point here has been to show that with futa vs hetero, one isn't necessarily less gay than the other. And this is true depending on the lens through which you view porn, i.e. voyeur vs self-insert, or even switching dynamically between them.
The quantum vs conventional physics analogy doesn't make a lot of sense either. I'm fully aware of the difference in technology between animated and live-action porn, and how that allows us to represent characters having sex. But the rules they operate under when it comes to real-life people watching, aren't really much different. WE as viewers, are still the same humans we were when all we had to watch was live-action stuff. We're still the same smart apes. Why should the porn medium have any bearing on how our brain interprets sex? It doesn't absolve an act from being gay or straight. Maybe what it really does is illustrate that we're, at the very least, all a little gay. Sexual orientation, after all, exists along a continuum, too. I'm always surprised to realize that so many prude cultures (the largest demographics in them) haven't realized this yet. The Greeks figured that shit out over 2000 years ago.
for self-insert, well, I dunno how you do it my friend. For me, the dick becomes my dick. I can almost feel what it looks it should be feeling. Simple as that... no I dont need to imagine myself with tits and long hair lol. I dont obsess too much over whats gay and what isnt, but it's fun to get a shot in at someone I know who does is all.
"You've taken your own preferences and assumed that everyone shares them."
That is... ya know I did my best I could say. I sure never had a conversation about this stuff, any of it. With anyone, ever before. Assumptions work fine but the More You Know, right? I do find it a bit interesting you make this claim, further that you fully well, self-insert with the term 'self-insert'... I guess that makes more sense to me why a person would want to see a male? I dunno, I cant do that. There's an example, eh VLVTs bring your daughter to work day animation with sarah cowgirl on the chair. The male there is really average while realistic. Kinda close to what I look like, it doesnt help my at all. I still barely notice the guy at all (yes, still, id rather it be just another chick to look at lol)
sorry, Sherry.
Anyway, if this is true: "For me, the dick becomes my dick. I can almost feel what it looks it should be feeling. Simple as that... no I dont need to imagine myself with tits and long hair lol."
If you aren't self-inserting as the woman, then why does it matter what model that dick belongs to? And then you later say: "I guess that makes more sense to me why a person would want to see a male? I dunno, I cant do that." To me, this says that you don't actually self-insert. Or maybe you only do it intermittently, and when you aren't actively imagining yourself in place of a character, you become the voyeur again. And when this happens, you don't want to see some dude. You'd rather see the female form. I guess I can understand that. But it still seems a little arbitrary to have an issue with every part of the male physique except the dick. Do these enormous dicks in all these futa videos resemble yours? I mean, if the whole issue is that you can't suspend disbelief when it comes to self-inserting with the male body, how can you do it with these foot long monsters the diameter of Pepsi can?
"the quantum analogy I explained well I felt. You take a female model (the proportions are of real life dimensions) and add a dick. You cant do that in real life. Explained that too."
Well, the actual mechanics of a woman with a dick isn't really the issue, is it? You said that the rules changed:
"In this sense, assuming you are a hetero you should PREFER futa because of this. Almost like conventional physics into quantum physics, rules change here with quality animated porn"
But the rules you're talking about are related to sexual orientation. And I tried to explain my position about why that doesn't make sense.
Well, I haven't had this in-depth of a discussion about this stuff either, but I appreciate the candid dialogue. Thanks for being a good sport about the whole thing. Cheers!
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